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Tznius Overload


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#1 warren

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 03:18 AM

I was going to put this in weird blog posts but I decided that tzinus weirdness needs its own thread.

 
 

Moriya's Place: This is how they view our women, ככך הם רואים הנשים שלנו

What is wrong with this picture?

headscarf_princesses_by_nayzak-d46flar.j
 

The above photo came from a Yishmaeli site. They are comparing their levels of modesty to ours, and purposefully denigrating ours.


Note:

  • our Orthodox Jewish women not covering their collar bone and wide necklines (see Rabbi Falk's Modesty, Adornment for Life)
  • our Orthodox Jewish women not covering all their hair even in their hair covering, revealing hair that should be covered (see Rabbi Falk's Modesty, Adornment for Life)
  • our Orthodox Jewish women wearing clothes that are tight fit, showing the curves (see Rabbi Falk's Modesty, Adornment for Life)
  • our Orthodox Jewish women with lots to say (notice open mouth), perhaps suggesting Loshon Hora?
Is there any truth to this? You decide.

This year, make it your business to study the Halachos of Tzniut(Jewish Modesty) and understand why we are not dressing up to Hashem's standards of modesty for us, and try to become a light unto the nations, instead of the laughing stock of the nations. The Jewish women have it in their hands to prevent the Yishmaelim from taking over Eretz Yisrael and the entire nation for 9 months before Moshiach comes b'ita.


I'm not sure if that last line means that she knows that Moshiach is coming at latest in 9 months, or that she knows that if other Jewish women don't dress up to her standards of modesty, whenever it is that Moshiach will come, the last nine months will have Israel ruled by Arabs.

So I did an image search, and this is by someone who goes by the handle Nayzak (meteor in Arabic) and has drawn hundreds of these Japanese style images to promote Islam. The original was not denigrating anyone (although perhaps Moriah found it somewhere else), it was saying, don't be afraid of Muslim women in head-scarves, look how many different cultures do it.

Also, Sabians don't exist anymore. They're mentioned in the Koran and by Rambam and in other sources
Poe's law: without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between sincere extremism and an exaggerated parody of extremism.

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#2 Xi'le

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 05:46 AM

Anyway, who cares what they think? Why isn't she commenting on the fact that we don't wear burkas? If the photo was to denigrate us, why didn't it show most of the Western world?

The Sabian thing is smart though. In addition to covering women, it keeps them from talking, too.

#3 RebDan

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 06:22 AM

The picture is obviously meant to show that Jewish women are hotties.

#4 brianna

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:26 AM

The illustration of a Catholic shows a nun, not your average devout Catholic woman. So it's an unfair comparison. Also, only Modern Orthodox women would allow that much hair to show not to mention the collar bone. I object strongly to the way the "Orthodox woman" is drawn with huge breasts and she seems to have a less than demure expression on her face.

#5 grend123

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:41 AM

our Orthodox Jewish women with lots to say (notice open mouth), perhaps suggesting Loshon Hora?


That may be the single stupidest thing I have ever read on the internet.

#6 politico

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 11:08 AM

Surprised she didn't note the large dangly earrings. I don't know what Falk has to say about them, but they were a big tznius no-no when I was in high school.

Also, I'm betting that Hindu woman would be showing a lot of back skin if she turned around.
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#7 brianna

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 03:37 PM

I thought about the illustration a little more, and another thing to point out is that they're not comparing women of the same amount of religiosity within their own communities. A hardcore Orthodox Jewish woman would never dress the way the illustrated woman is depicted. Specifically the tight fitting clothes, the collar bone showing, as politico pointed out the dangly earrings, the hair showing and also the stance and facial expression is very misleading.

But equally misleading is the way the Muslim woman is dressed. Not all Muslim women dress the same way. Some wear full burqas which cover the whole face (except for a some mesh so the woman can see). Others wear the hijab as depicted but wear jeans or other pants as well. And as I mentioned, Catholic women do not dress as the illustration depicts unless they're nuns - essentially part of the clergy. I don't know enough about Hindus to comment on that one.

Compare apples to apples and then we'll talk.

#8 RebDan

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 04:25 PM

The illustration of a Catholic shows a nun, not your average devout Catholic woman. So it's an unfair comparison.


If you look at the original, she's labeled "Catholic nun", not Christian Catholic. Like Warren mentioned, the picture is actually a muslim guy trying to show that wearing headscarves isn't so weird. It's not a comparison at all & nothing disparaging is said about the Jewish woman.

#9 brianna

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 05:55 PM

Wearing a headscarf is weird if you're living in the United States because Hindus, Orthodox Jewish women who wear headscarves (most in America wear wigs) and Muslims are in the minority and nuns are separating themselves from society by wearing their traditional garb.

#10 politico

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 06:25 PM

Depends where you live in the US. It would be weird in my current town. It definitely wasn't in my last one.
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#11 Indigo

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 08:56 PM

Basically the charedim who are trying to make women disappear are complaining that Jewish women do not dress in habits like nuns?

Wacks.

#12 Master Zed

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 04:14 AM

Whether or not this photo is meant to be pejorative the fact that the artist assosiates stam frum women with h0tt chanies speaks volumes and should certainly be cause for introspection.
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#13 Indigo

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:58 AM

Whether or not this photo is meant to be pejorative the fact that the artist assosiates stam frum women with h0tt chanies speaks volumes and should certainly be cause for introspection.


Introspection by the artist, sure.

#14 Arizona

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 05:14 PM

I've looked at that picture many times now and I'm not sure I can see what the huge deal is with the Jewish woman's outfit. The collar is bit low but it's hardly low cut. (I'm guessing those top two lines are supposed to indicate her collar bone. When I first saw the pic, it looked like it was part of the blouse.) And, yes, she does have some hair showing but it's not all that much.

The issue I have is calling her outfit too tight or form fitting. I disagree. Just because she actually has a figure does not mean her clothes aren't tznius. The other women are draped in fabric and, quite frankly, have the figures of 12 year old boys.

Also, as has been said, those other outfits are hardly indicative of normal dress. Most nuns nowadays are not that covered; forget average Catholic girls who tend to wear (believe it or not) Catholic schoolgirl uniforms. The Muslim girls I see often have a scarf paired with jeans and a t-shirt. And don't get me started on how revealing actual traditional Indian attire is.
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#15 Master Zed

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 05:19 PM

The finger nails are what did it for me :)
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#16 warren

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:06 AM

Thinking Jew Girl: Are Haredim Insecure Because of Muslims? comments on the same blog entry.
Poe's law: without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between sincere extremism and an exaggerated parody of extremism.

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#17 Snag

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 07:06 AM

Thinking Jew Girl: Are Haredim Insecure Because of Muslims? comments on the same blog entry.

And she got it from iSh, apparently...
" All my life I have tried to pluck a thistle and plant a flower wherever the flower would grow in thought and mind."

#18 Master Zed

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:54 PM

I don't think Haredim are insecure because of Muslims because many Muslims dress very provocatively, much more so than h0tt Chanies. In fact it's really only the older generation (like grandma age) that dress tznyusly. The younger you get the tighter the jeans get, and the more makeup is worn. So yes they are covering their heads, but beyond that...

Not to mention that the "secular A-rabs" dress the most provocatively of all, even by lack of Israeli standards of class and taste.
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#19 Indigo

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 03:11 PM

the mere fact that the drawing purports to show Sabians means the whole thing is bogus

so if they made up a sabian out of their imagination, so too the jewess and the nun and the hindu.

and there's no such thing as a christian catholic, just by the way

#20 warren

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:59 AM

can't entirely make out the handwriting but it seems to be saying that women in immodest clothes will burn in hell. I think he picked the right sign to add his comments to but maybe not the way he intended.

Posted Image
Poe's law: without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between sincere extremism and an exaggerated parody of extremism.

Demand the impossible! everyone will be free




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