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#21 Bezalel

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:52 PM

But empty plastic chairs screams "we will davka remove women from the world"

 

I think showing empty plastic chairs is very untziusdik, because it evokes an image of all the girls' tushies usually planted in those chairs.



#22 politico

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:50 AM

In today's NY Times Book Review:

 

http://www.nytimes.c...some-spine.html


OTD ברוך שעשני

#23 starwolf

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:47 AM

In today's NY Times Book Review:

http://www.nytimes.c...some-spine.html

Oh no!
Showing a woman's back?
That's a slippery slope















Especially if copious amounts of baby oil are used.

הַתְקַשֵּׁר מַעֲדַנּוֹת כִּימָה אוֹ-מֹשְׁכוֹת כְּסִיל תְּפַתֵּחַ

doubt not through the ages one increasing purpose runs, and the thoughts of men are widened with the process of the suns.

#24 TimeRebbe

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:13 AM

http://popchassid.co...e-help-modesty/


'At the hearing, Judge Craig made no secret about how she viewed the lawsuit, at various points characterizing Geltzer’s positions as “ridiculous” and “absurd”.  Her opinion, while slightly more measured than her comments during oral argument, dismissed Geltzer’s claims as “based on a fundamentally flawed legal theory that is . . . at odds with common sense.” '


#25 warren

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:07 PM

The Voice of Lakewood, August 22, 2013

 

1238776_400648983368236_872726578_n.jpg


Poe's law: without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between sincere extremism and an exaggerated parody of extremism.

Demand the impossible! everyone will be free

#26 Indigo

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:22 PM

Idiots

#27 jewess

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:22 PM

Unbelievable.
Also, how can they write the word women? It makes some men think of breasts.

#28 Gabbe

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:32 PM

They should be makpid not to spell words with two o's in a row. It would do their neshamos go-d.

#29 starwolf

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 08:14 AM

http://failedmessiah...sukkah-345.html

A few years ago, I would have said that this can't be real. Now it doesn't suprise me at all.

"Bobov says that it is forbidden for women to enter the sukkah....."


I honestly do not understand why chassidic women ( and men, for that matter) put up with this crap.

הַתְקַשֵּׁר מַעֲדַנּוֹת כִּימָה אוֹ-מֹשְׁכוֹת כְּסִיל תְּפַתֵּחַ

doubt not through the ages one increasing purpose runs, and the thoughts of men are widened with the process of the suns.

#30 Sheretz b'yado

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:44 AM

http://failedmessiah...sukkah-345.html

A few years ago, I would have said that this can't be real. Now it doesn't suprise me at all.

"Bobov says that it is forbidden for women to enter the sukkah....."


I honestly do not understand why chassidic women ( and men, for that matter) put up with this crap.

 

So you think that sign is referring to that particular sukkah or to all sukkahs?



#31 Gabbe

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:52 AM

Yeah, pretty sure it is referring to the Bobov Sukkah.

#32 starwolf

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 11:30 AM

So you think that sign is referring to that particular sukkah or to all sukkahs?

Why does that matter?


הַתְקַשֵּׁר מַעֲדַנּוֹת כִּימָה אוֹ-מֹשְׁכוֹת כְּסִיל תְּפַתֵּחַ

doubt not through the ages one increasing purpose runs, and the thoughts of men are widened with the process of the suns.

#33 Master Zed

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 01:38 PM

Because if it was the SHUL sukkah outside the Beis Midrash that is packed with men it makes a lot of sense. If it is a private sukkah or ALL sukkahs in general it doesn't....

 

It's not because they are "tamei" or who knows what, it is for tznyus reasons. Go to any chassidic shul and you will not find women in the sukkah with men. Just like you will not find mixed kiddushes or anything else....


You're wrong Kyle, G-d is NOT a dick! -- Eric Cartman

#34 starwolf

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 02:11 PM

And people wonder why women feel excluded from Jewish ritual.......

הַתְקַשֵּׁר מַעֲדַנּוֹת כִּימָה אוֹ-מֹשְׁכוֹת כְּסִיל תְּפַתֵּחַ

doubt not through the ages one increasing purpose runs, and the thoughts of men are widened with the process of the suns.

#35 Master Zed

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 02:27 PM

And people wonder why women feel excluded from Jewish ritual.......

I really don't get the opposition here. Shuls have men's sections and women's sections. There is no "ritual" here and with limited space and large crowds it makes sense not to have both men AND women in the same sukkah. Now I suppose the shul COULD have built a special chick sukkah, but I don't know the logistics of that or how much demand there would even BE for such a thing.... And being that they aren't chayiv in the first place and most people have sukkos at home that they can sit in all day if they so choose what would be the point?

 

There are so many REAL examples of "disempowering woman", that this doesn't even warrant honorable mention...


You're wrong Kyle, G-d is NOT a dick! -- Eric Cartman

#36 starwolf

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:15 PM

Well, my "opposition" doesn't really matter; this is not a public space, and anyone who (like me) objects could simply not join this chassidic group. Unless, of course, one feels that women in the group are not free to voice their objections.

I simply think that this default way of thinking--that there is no room for men and women in the same area because of crowding/tznius--so we will simply excude the women because who knows if they will come anyway and they are not chayyav--
IS disenfranchising. How many shuls, because of this logic, have womens' sections that are so tiny that women cannot even come to daven? If one feels that women should be encouraged to do mitzvot, this is not the way to go about it.

And of course, I have the belief that holidays, with their asociated mitzvot, should be celebrated by families together, not separately. Just one more reason that I would not make a good chasid.

הַתְקַשֵּׁר מַעֲדַנּוֹת כִּימָה אוֹ-מֹשְׁכוֹת כְּסִיל תְּפַתֵּחַ

doubt not through the ages one increasing purpose runs, and the thoughts of men are widened with the process of the suns.

#37 Master Zed

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:15 AM

I am (generally) not in favor of gender segregated events (though I fully understand those that are) but I do believe there is certainly a time and a place for them, even l'shitas those who generally oppose them on ideological grounds. As was mentioned everyone has their own sukkah or access to one and families eat their meals together at home. The men aren't all eating in shul leaving their wives at home to entertain the kids or banishing the women to the kitchen. This is the SHUL Sukkah and on Yomtov shuls especially those with Chassidic Rebbes tend to get quite packed to the point where there is barely room for the MEN and there is tons of pushing and shoving... Or Lag B'Omer in Meron. It would be absolute mayhem if there were not separate areas for men and women (though there are de facto "co ed" areas and no one bothers anyone else). Or even (yes even) the mens and womens sections of Mea Shearim street during (and ONLY during) the Simchas Beis Hashoeva. It is not sexism, it is simply to maintain the "public order" and attempt to minimize men and women having to squish together in tiny spaces. The rest of the year everyone manages just fine...

 

I agree with you that women's sections are often an afterthought (if that even), and that more provisions and effort need to be made for them to be able to participate, but THIS is not one of those times. We did had this come up several times on Simchas Torah though. You can probably count the shuls on two hands (if not one) in Jerusalem where women dance (or even have place to dance) even WITHOUT touching the sifrei Torah (Rachmana Litzlan). We tried to make provisions at a certain shul (which ideologically should have been willing if only on "Kiruv grounds") to clear out benches in the ezras nashim so at least there would be SPACE for them, and the Gabbai basically told us in no uncertain terms to piss off and there is no way in HELL this type of activity would occur at "his" shul... So in the end a bunch of women didn't come because they felt snubbed and let's just say the opposite of a Kiddush Hashem was made...

 

But again none of these sentiments apply to Chassidim or for the most part Haredim in general. And just like many non haredim do not want to participate in segregated events or be parts of those communities, the feeling is more than mutual, and I don't see why people can't just accept that other people have different preferences and ideologies and not make a tumult every time someone DARES to do something that THEY personally take issue with. Why does every little thing have to be blown up into a "civil rights" issue? Yes there are "abuses" on BOTH sides but thank G-d there is more than ONE community and more than one "flavor" of Judaism, why does everyone INSIST that everyone else be like THEM and get all indignant when they aren't??? Everyone needs to take a deep breath and grow up a little bit....


You're wrong Kyle, G-d is NOT a dick! -- Eric Cartman

#38 starwolf

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:45 AM

As I posted, as this is a private event, I have noreal beef with it. i disagree, but they cerainly have the right to do it as they wish.

As for you, too bad. i always found shul a pretty good way to meet women.

הַתְקַשֵּׁר מַעֲדַנּוֹת כִּימָה אוֹ-מֹשְׁכוֹת כְּסִיל תְּפַתֵּחַ

doubt not through the ages one increasing purpose runs, and the thoughts of men are widened with the process of the suns.

#39 Sheretz b'yado

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:32 AM

As I posted, as this is a private event, I have noreal beef with it. i disagree, but they cerainly have the right to do it as they wish.

As for you, too bad. i always found shul a pretty good way to meet women.

 

(uses shul to meet women)

(doesn't understand why mixing in shul is a tznius problem)



#40 starwolf

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:54 AM

(uses shul to meet women)

(doesn't understand why mixing in shul is a tznius problem)

There are some people who think that the only halachically acceptable way to meet women is via a shadchan.

I'm not one of them.

I see nothing wrong with men and women socializing.


הַתְקַשֵּׁר מַעֲדַנּוֹת כִּימָה אוֹ-מֹשְׁכוֹת כְּסִיל תְּפַתֵּחַ

doubt not through the ages one increasing purpose runs, and the thoughts of men are widened with the process of the suns.




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