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Deaths of Famous People


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#1 politico

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:03 PM

[Not to be confused with Interesting Obituaries]

 

Dennis Farina (1944-2013)


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#2 Snag

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:48 AM

Rabbi Dr. J. Immanuel Schochet zt "l. 5695-5773
" All my life I have tried to pluck a thistle and plant a flower wherever the flower would grow in thought and mind."

#3 Gabbe

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:13 AM

And the Old Guard gets yet smaller.

#4 Grand Central

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:20 AM

Author Tom Clancy, 1947-2013.



#5 politico

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 08:22 AM

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, Influential Spiritual Leader in Israel, Dies at 93


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#6 Gabbe

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 08:32 AM

I'm curious about how Sephardism will develop without him. I suspect that after an appropriate recovery time, all the rabbis that he railroaded will start coming out of the woodwork.

#7 FYI

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:34 AM

Doesn't he have a son to take over the mantle?



#8 Rainbow

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:41 AM

BDE



#9 Gabbe

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:48 AM

Doesn't he have a son to take over the mantle?

His son wrote the Yalkut Yosef, so he has a lot of street cred, but a lot of ROY's success came from his unique personality which his son may not be able to pull off.

#10 warren

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:54 AM

Doesn't he have a son to take over the mantle?

 

He had 11, one (R Yaakov Yosef) died earlier this year.  At least one child is a daughter (known for starting the Jerusalem Haredi College), but I haven't found a full list or how many of them are men.

 

One of his sons, R Yitzchak Yosef, was recently installed as Rishon Letzion, but that doesn't automatically make him the next head of Shas.  Chief Rabbis are not supposed to be involved in party politics, so he can't head Shas now, someone else is going to have to run it for the next ten years.  Speculation about who would succeed him as head of Shas started during his illness, and there will probably be some Kremlinology reports starting tonight at the funeral, through the shivah, at the shloshim, et. al.

 

Shas could also split into factions, some of which could combine with other parties.


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#11 Gabbe

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:13 AM

Shas could also split into factions, some of which could combine with other parties.

We don't know who the other children are, which means that they're unlikely to take the mantle. Shas breaking up and combining with other parties would just be a sign that it's weakening without the personality of ROY. Also, ROY was fantastic at turning religion into politics and politics into religion, a talent his successor might not share.

#12 warren

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:46 AM

We don't know who the other children are, which means that they're unlikely to take the mantle. Shas breaking up and combining with other parties would just be a sign that it's weakening without the personality of ROY. Also, ROY was fantastic at turning religion into politics and politics into religion, a talent his successor might not share.

 

I had filed all of his sons in my mind under the category of "yet another son of ROY" but that doesn't mean that people in Shas don't know them.

 

R Avraham Yosef, chief rabbi of Holon, he was investigated by police (before that, there were reports that he would run for Rishon Letzion, not his brother who eventually did), but that shouldn't be a problem in Shas.  I would not be surprised to find other Yosefs on a list of city/regional chief rabbis in Israel.
 
I guessed that there might be another son named R Moshe Yosef who is head of Badatz Beit Yaakov (and reportedly influential in Shas and helped a ROY son-in-law, [Yaakov Chicotai, become chief rabbi of Maccabim-Reut).  I looked for, but didn't find an Aharon, but did find a David, rabbi of Har Nof.  There are reports that David is out of favor.
  
I finally found the full list at Hamodia's article on Yaakov's death.  I didn't bother to look up what the other sons-in-law do because I don't think that gets you anything more than a cushy job unless there are no sons left.
 

His brothers are Harav Yitzchak Yosef, Rosh Yeshivas Chazon Ovada; Harav Avraham Yosef, Chief Rabbi of Holon; Harav Dovid Yosef, head of the Yechaveh Daas beis medrash and Rav of Har Nof; and Harav Moshe Yosef, head of the Badatz Bais Yosef.

His sisters are Rabbaniyot Adina Bar Shalom, Malka Sasson, Yaffa Cohen, Rivka Chicoutai, Sarah Toledano and Leah Butbul.


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#13 Master Zed

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 03:24 PM

One needs to separate the $ha$ ROY, from the Posek, talmid chacham, mechanech ROY...

His former legacy I will surely not miss, and frankly I hope falls to pieces by infighting, but his legacy as a Torah scholar will live on for a long time and I think it is safe to put him up there amongst the Sefardi Giants such as the Kaf HaChayim, the Ben Ish Chai, and some want to say the Beis Yosef himself... There is no one alive today in the Sefardi world that even comes CLOSE, so I doubt we will see a "successor"....
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#14 Gabbe

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 03:32 PM

One needs to separate the $ha$ ROY, from the Posek, talmid chacham, mechanech ROY...

NO. I hate when people do that. People don't have multiple seperate personalities like Jekyll and Hyde. Different spheres bleed into each other.

The posek ROY is influenced by the Shas ROY, and in fact he made no secret that his work in both spheres was for one end: to empower Sephardim to cast off the shackles of the Ashkenazi hegemony (actually not a bad goal). Hence his ability to bend over backwards to accommodate and defend some practices while being completely stymied by other minor issues like when women should make shehechiyanu on YT or the bracha on Shabbos candles.

People talk about the contradiction between ROY the lamdan and ROY the rabble rouser. There is no contradiction; they're both different manifestations of the same personality.

#15 Master Zed

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:00 PM

I don't think it's a "contradiction" at all and I agree they can't be totally separated, but one can respect the man as a Torah Scholar and Gaon even if they are disgusted by his politics. (Even Meir Kahane when asked about ROY told his followers that in issues of HALACHA he should absolutely be listened to, just not "inyani d'yoma")... So to present him constantly as "The head of Shas" is focusing on only ONE facet of his very complex personality and life and IMO the not very flattering one...
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#16 Gabbe

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:17 PM

As a Torah scholar, yes. He had a vast amount of material at his command. I do think that there is a possibily he sometimes either purposely or subconsciously fudged the math to get to a specific outcome.

#17 FYI

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 02:03 AM

His son wrote the Yalkut Yosef, so he has a lot of street cred, but a lot of ROY's success came from his unique personality which his son may not be able to pull off.

 

 

He had 11, one (R Yaakov Yosef) died earlier this year.  At least one child is a daughter (known for starting the Jerusalem Haredi College), but I haven't found a full list or how many of them are men.

 

One of his sons, R Yitzchak Yosef, was recently installed as Rishon Letzion, but that doesn't automatically make him the next head of Shas.  Chief Rabbis are not supposed to be involved in party politics, so he can't head Shas now, someone else is going to have to run it for the next ten years.  Speculation about who would succeed him as head of Shas started during his illness, and there will probably be some Kremlinology reports starting tonight at the funeral, through the shivah, at the shloshim, et. al.

 

Shas could also split into factions, some of which could combine with other parties.

Why ten years?

 

One needs to separate the $ha$ ROY, from the Posek, talmid chacham, mechanech ROY...

His former legacy I will surely not miss, and frankly I hope falls to pieces by infighting, but his legacy as a Torah scholar will live on for a long time and I think it is safe to put him up there amongst the Sefardi Giants such as the Kaf HaChayim, the Ben Ish Chai, and some want to say the Beis Yosef himself... There is no one alive today in the Sefardi world that even comes CLOSE, so I doubt we will see a "successor"....

Where does the Baba Sali fit into the sefardi picture?

 

P.S. One more reason, I am so happy to be CLUELESS about politics.



#18 warren

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 03:27 AM

Why ten years?

 

RYY was appointed Chief Rabbi just this year.  That lasts for ten years.


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#19 FYI

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 03:49 AM

RYY was appointed Chief Rabbi just this year.  That lasts for ten years.

Ah, I didn't realize the position is secured for 10 years at a time.



#20 warren

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 04:05 AM

Ah, I didn't realize the position is secured for 10 years at a time.

Shas may owe its existence to the term limit. Had ROY been allowed additional terms as Chief Rabbi, he might have not gotten involved in politics.
Poe's law: without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between sincere extremism and an exaggerated parody of extremism.

Demand the impossible! everyone will be free




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